Episode #6 ADOA podcast: Lowie and Danny about running with a buddy

Below you will find the transcript of this podcast.

00:00:03
Maud: Welcome to the ADOA Podcast. ADOA is a very rare hereditary eye condition. My name is Maud van Gerwen and I am here with…

00:00:11
Lion: Leon Augustijn. Together we will talk to professionals and experts about their view on ADOA. Welcome to this podcast. Well welcome Danny and Lowie! Great that you are participating in the podcast. And who is Lowie?

00:00:27
Lowie: I am Lowie van Eck, I am a teacher assistant at Zeist, the school for the blind and partially sighted of Bartiméus, and there I teach children who are also blind or partially sighted. And in that way I try to teach them, but also to be an example. So with my own handicap I try to inspire them to go outside their comfort zone every now and then, and to work a little harder than other children who are in regular primary schools.

00:00:57
Lion: Yeah, nice. And Danny?

00:00:59
Danny: My name is Danny Verheezen, I am 34 years old and I come from Ridderkerk. I work at Bakker Barendrecht as a financial controller. Running is my hobby and it was in that capacity that I came into contact with Lowie.

00:01:17
Lion: Yes, nice. And Lowie, you said about your own handicap, you have ADOA, how does that manifest itself?

00:01:27
Lowie: I currently see 6% according to the specialists, so my reading vision is 10%, so that means that I have to magnify ten times more than people who see everything. And in the distance I see 6%, so then I would have to magnify even more or pull it towards me, and that actually means that with us I see very blurry. So for me actually a fast movement, or letters are very blurry and I have to pull it towards me very hard to be able to see. And that is with actions that are fast, or that are too far away, that is difficult.

00:02:07
Lion: Yes, but how did you start running?

00:02:13
Lowie: When I was a bit younger, I think my vision was better, because that hasn't really been kept up to date, so we don't know. Back in the day, about ten years ago when I was 19, 19 to 23 – I'm 32 now – I used to do competitions without a buddy. Then I was out of it for a long time because of my studies, so I didn't run fanatically for about ten years, but more occasionally on Goeree-Overflakkee where it's a bit quieter, so you hardly meet anyone there. And then I started running again, about last year I think, in September for ADOA to raise money, and then I did the Dam tot Damloop on my own, and then I suddenly noticed that there were so many stimuli coming at me and all those people running around me, that came at me so much, that I actually decided then: "Well, I can do this, but this is not nice". So at some point you're completely ruined, not by running, but by your vision, and I think that takes some of the fun out of the sport.

00:03:19
Lion: Yes, you said I had a break for a while for the study. What can you tell me briefly about that? What kind of studies you did?

00:03:27
Lowie: I first studied media management at Graaf Lyceum, which is really a graphic study. After that I went to ICT, so information services management. So it's really about building databases and sites. And then my great wish came true to become a teacher. I am now a teacher assistant, but I will make a fresh start at the PABO next year.

00:03:54
Lion: So that makes three HBO studies.

00:03:56
Lowie: Yes, then I will indeed have completed three HBO studies in two years.

00:03:59
Lion: Then you automatically get your master's degree, right?

00:04:02
Lowie: I haven't asked yet, but maybe I can just swap them out and it will work.

00:04:08
Lion: And Danny, how did that come about? Yeah, look, you just run fast, and you don't have to think about anything, I guess.

00:04:18
Danny: No, no, that's right. I started running myself in 2021, and it soon became clear that I could run quite fast. And a friend of mine, Ronald, worked with Lowie, and he knew that Lowie was looking for a buddy who could keep up a certain pace, because Lowie had the ambition to become Dutch champion. And then that friend asked me: "Man, are you interested in this?" Yes, for me that was actually a "Yes" without thinking, that seems like a lot of fun to help someone achieve their dreams. That's what I'm saying. So yes, we met through Ronald.

00:05:11
Lion: And then?

00:05:12
Danny: What was funny: I had imagined that Ronald would be present at the first meeting, so we had agreed to go for a run in the Kralingse Bos. And Ronald couldn't make it that day, so I had to meet Lowie there directly. I knew that Lowie had ADOA, and so I didn't know how well Lowie could see, yes or no. So that was quite strange for me to meet Lowie for the first time, because I didn't know if he would be able to see me, if he would recognize me, maybe from photos, or maybe not. But yes, in the end it all went well, and before that I was already surprised that I could text Lowie, I actually thought that was really nice to see. But then we actually shook hands in the Kralingse Bos, hung the rope between us, and we went for a run together. I had never done it before either, so I didn't know what to expect. So that was also a bit of a switch for me. “Do I have to take Lowie into account? Does he have to take me into account? Or each other?” And ultimately I think it’s a combination of taking each other into account: me not having to walk too fast, Lowie having to give his instructions, and me having to give Lowie instructions.

00:06:46
Lion: Yes / Yes.

00:06:47
Danny: At the beginning of the round there is a big threshold, and then I had to say: "Watch out, a threshold". And after that it all went by itself. We walked one round quietly, walked one round a bit faster, and then walked another round quietly. The first run was about fifteen kilometers. Yes, that really within no time past.

00:07:09
Lion: Yes, and how can you place such trust in that, Lowie?

00:07:16
Lowie: I think just flip the switch and just go. Yeah, but.

00:07:21
Lion: Yes, but missing a tree or a threshold is…

00:07:25
Lowie: I have to be honest, I ran with two other buddies before, one of whom is my brother, and the other was another person, and that run didn't go so well, because that person felt like he had to drag me along, so I kind of followed. And then I also hit a threshold, I almost had a kind of knee... that that didn't go so well at all. So I had a first experience that wasn't very positive, because someone was dragging me along more, and that's of course not really the intention. So it's still quite exciting, because you're actually giving almost all control of your entire vision to someone. The first time you secretly navigate along a bit, but at a certain point you also realize - just like with a Dutch championship, which I think we'll talk about in a moment - that I needed my strength for my legs because we had a competitor who was also quite strong. We had a difference of half a minute, so the coin could just as well have fallen the other way, that he had energy left at the end to overtake me. So then it is important to think: "Okay, I trust my buddy Danny, and I leave the view to him, and I am mainly going to run and listen to the instructions that are given".

00:08:43
Lion: Yes. And Danny, if you look, because you've been around for a while now, what's remarkable about that?

00:08:54
Danny: Yes, for myself, I find it very unreal that Lowie gives me control over his vision, and for me it is also just a matter of having to keep an eye on everything. When I walk myself, I see everything of course, and then I don't have to say that. But now I have to talk and walk at the same time. Sometimes talking doesn't go very well together with walking, so yes, that feels to me... it feels comfortable now, but the first time I found it very scary.

00:09:27
Lion: Yeah, yeah. And do you also see in Lowie that he might grow in that? Or that you say: “Well, yeah…”

00:09:36
Danny: Well, it's kind of funny, because we'll probably talk about the National Championships in a moment, but we've only trained together once, and then we went to run the National Championships. But in the meantime, I know what Lowie is running now, and I hardly know it any other way than that he's growing in that. He's run the marathon of course, recently a fifty kilometer race too, yes, then you have to have grown.

00:10:03
Lion: Yeah. And about that NK, how is that? So you went for a few laps, and then the NK?

00:10:11
Lowie: Yes, what I found very funny there is that the winner of last year, he was received there as a kind of almost hero, and we sat there quietly in a corner, we mainly kept our mouths shut

00:10:24
Danny: As great unknowns.

00:10:25
Lowie: As complete strangers, but I was really nervous, because I had this idea of: “I really want this, but I don't really know where we stand as a duo”, because we were in the whole Community of blind and visually impaired, we were really completely unknown. So whether we did things well with the band or the chorus… I have also seen methods such as a buddy and a visually impaired person want to pass, that they are working with a whistle. I think we have shouted or screamed enough with the NK now and then.

00:10:58
Danny: Yes / Yes.

00:10:59
Lowie: So we actually went into it so literally blind, that we didn't really know how to approach it. So I found it exciting

00:11:11
Danny: Yes, it was very different from other competitions for me. Now I know that in normal competitions it is always that you walk on the left if you are a bit faster, and on the right if you are slower, but we had a separate starting box, and we actually started behind people who were slower than us. So at a certain point they all started walking on the left, but then they still had to move aside for us because we were still walking faster, that was quite a strange thing. And then we did it with our voice, while others did it with a whistle.

00:11:52
Lion: And that drive That performance is very deep with you, do you know where it comes from?

00:12:00
Lowie: Yeah, what I always say is that I've claimed for a long time that I'm a good runner, so when I was younger, I was convinced myself that I was pretty good at that, at that sport. But I never really had the proof or anything, I had run some nice times on the ten, and on the half I had run a pretty good time, but this was for me quite… the drive was that I came into contact with a case manager from Bartiméus, so he was going to help me find resources and things like that, to adjust my workplace for example. And then I told her: "Well, I like running, that's my hobby". And she said: "Yes, I know a boy who won a Dutch championship, but yes, I never think you're as fast as he is". And then I started googling: "Well, what are those times now?", and that's how I ended up with Ronald, because I actually just asked around on impulse within one day: "Can I find runners who can help me with this?" From the point that I had decided that I wanted to participate in the National Championship to the National Championship itself, that was a period of three months, so that is of course a very short time frame to actually go from a runner who has not been active for years to participating in a competition for the blind and partially sighted.

00:13:19
Lion: Yes, and before we talk about those events any further… But suppose someone is listening, and he thinks: “Well, those hobbies, that active thing, that's not in my nature, I already have ADOA, and my eyesight is already bad, so yes, good for Lowie, but give my portion to others”, what do you want to say to those people?

00:13:43
Lowie: I think it's good to first think: "What do I like?" I also know that there are people within the target group who like baking, for example, and with food, and they go all out with that. So of course it doesn't have to be mainly sports, you don't have to go all out with sports like all of us, but it can also be with something else, but make sure that you find someone who can help you with the first steps. Just like I almost wouldn't want to do without a buddy, I can imagine that if you want to draw - because you can of course also learn to do that beautifully -, or bake, that you have someone who can teach you a bit of the tricks of the trade. So I think that's the most important thing. But then of course Bartiméus or Visio are two very big players and partners in that, that you can knock on the door of those organizations, and that there is always a listening ear who can tell you: 'Maybe they are thinking in that direction, or they are thinking about that organization'. Yes, so I would try to think about: "What do I like? What gives me energy?"

00:14:49
Lion: Yes. And if you don’t know?

00:14:52
Lowie: Then you can try different things. I think I have done different sports in my life, many of which I have written off by now, because I just notice that I get more energy from one sport than another.

00:15:04
Lion: Yes. That is actually experimenting.

00:15:07
Lowie: Yes, definitely. And that way you also find out what you don't like.

00:15:10
Lion: Yes, great. But I can also imagine that you walk, that sometimes because of the tension or because of the endurance, that sometimes it might not be pleasant.

00:15:24
Danny: Well, I can still remember that first run well, we took it easy on the first lap - at a leisurely pace medium-high pace – and then the second lap we would already run at race pace. Well, that's a lap of five kilometers each time, and then Lowie had a really hard time during the second lap, and then I thought: "Oh, we have to keep this up for fifteen kilometers".

00:15:44
Lowie: Of course

00:15:45
Danny: So then I thought: "Well, that's going to take some training" for Lowie. Eventually we did a slow lap afterwards, just a warm-up lap, and then Lowie had completely caught his breath again. I think it took him a bit of getting going, I think afterwards, but yes, in the end it worked out. I think you've trained quite a lot the last two months.

00:16:13
Lowie: Yes, definitely, I went for it completely.

00:16:17
Lion: Yes, did it also happen while walking, things that made you think: “Oh, we didn't see that coming, or we could have done that differently”?

00:16:26
Danny: The funny thing is, with the National Championships I got through my athletics club – PAC, also located in Kralingen – I actually got an analysis of the competition that the opponents probably didn't have at that moment. And because of that I already said to Lowie: "Let's get the first eleven or twelve kilometers out of my head, let's run them calmly, at about the competition pace, but we knew that after that the route would only go downhill, so it's easier to achieve a higher pace with less Yago's defensive effort. And so we saw number 1 running away from us all the time, until kilometer twelve, and then we basically went over him like a bunch of savages.

00:17:12
Lowie: Yes, and what I also found funny is that I think you consciously chose to share certain information with me and to withhold certain information.

00:17:20
Danny: Yes, that's right. Yes, at one point we actually overtook number 1 at that moment, then I didn't say that we had already passed him, so that he would still run faster and that we would run out so that we knew for sure that we would become champions.

00:17:35
Lion: Yes. You actually also made a bit of conscious use of his disability.

00:17:39
Danny: Actually, I abused his trust at that moment, yes, yes, that's right.

00:17:43
Lowie: But the agreement beforehand was also: “Lowie, you concentrate on running, and you’re just going to nod and hum a bit every now and then, but don’t waste energy talking about differences and concentrate on your breathing”, because that was of course my biggest pitfall during training. And that’s what I paid attention to then, that breathing. And every now and then I heard something from Danny, and I thought: “Oh, information, do something with it, don’t do anything with it”, and on. And I think that’s also the ideal position of the buddy, the buddy oversees the road, but in this case also the race, the course of the race, and he makes sure that it goes well without pulling me along. So of course I did run that entire fifty kilometers on my own.

00:18:34
Lion: Yes. And what was that feeling like when you approached the finish line?

00:18:42
Lowie: I think I remember you even taking your phone out to text someone or…

00:18:48
Danny: No, I actually wanted to film it, you crossing the finish line. That didn't work out, but at the same time I kept whipping up the audience, like: "This is number 1, Dutch champion Running Blind".

00:19:01
Lowie3: But the pressure was off, especially the last hundred meters I think, then the pressure was off.

00:19:06
Danny: Yes. I think one of the rules was that I as a buddy had to hold on to the rope at all times, and I managed to do that for the last hundred meters, well, not the last hundred meters, the last twenty meters or fifteen meters I couldn't do that anymore, because you couldn't really be held anymore. And then Lowie also ran into the camera crew.

00:19:28
Lion: How did that go?

00:19:31
Lowie: The camera crew was just a meter behind the finish line, and I went over that line like a maniac, and I walked straight… I could still see the man's face, but he was really scared, because he didn't expect me to walk into it like that, but I really knocked them over. So I came racing into the camera crew at fifteen, fourteen kilometers an hour, I think, and those people didn't know what hit them actually

00:19:57
Lion: Yes, someone who sees will probably stop in time.

00:20:01
Danny: Yes / Yes.

00:20:02
Lion: Yeah. Nice. And how how do your parents react to that?

00:20:06
Lowie: They were as proud as a peacock. They didn't really have it either... The speed at which it went, and the balls started rolling. My brother also said beforehand that he really wanted to go, and said: "Yes, but Dutch champion, I don't think you'll become that. I would love it if you became that, and then I would want to be there". But he was disappointed afterwards, because he thought: "Well, he even succeeded".

00:20:29
Lion: Yes / Yes.

00:20:30
Lowie: So he thought about those three months, of: "That probably won't work", because of course in terms of training it is very short. But yes, they were really super proud that it worked out.

00:20:43
Lion: But what now?

00:20:47
Lowie: Yes, defending the title is I think the only answer to that. I think we're just going to have a nice run in November, whether we win or not, it's just going to be a nice battle again I think. And I just hope that we can run a nice race against Tim again this year in which he can show his strength again, and where we can actually get along with each other until the last kilometers, and then we'll see who comes out the strongest at that moment. Because I think that in that way, then the sport wins, and also the target group 'blind and partially sighted' wins at the moment that opposition can be offered. So it's also at the moment that a third player joins us that we don't know yet, and he suddenly seems to be very good, that's of course only nice, because then we as the target group 'blind and partially sighted' show that we can do something too. So I hope for a very nice battle again.

00:21:46
Lion: And are there any other competitions you want to do?

00:21:50
Lowie: I will do some runners. I think Danny will do about the same. The Dam tot Damloop is on the program for me again. I will also do a smaller run with the Amsterdam marathon, not the whole marathon. So I will really take the big events in the Netherlands again.

00:22:08
Lion: Yes, and do you still want to go abroad?

00:22:11
Lowie: That is the wish to do that with a trail run one day, so the mountains, that… I don't know if Danny will ever be open to that

00:22:20
Danny: I still have a fear of heights, so I don't think that's going to happen with me at that moment. But maybe you can do that with the other buddy, you can also have another buddy of course.

00:22:31
Lowie: Yes, and I do some more trail runs and ultra marathons with that. But I would like to really go into the mountains in Switzerland or another country. Also challenging of course for someone who is less visible, but that way you keep yourself busy. And I think just to keep going one step further and see: "How far can I go?", that that is exactly... Your mentality and your drive ensures that you have a kind of... That fighting spirit keeps that going.

00:23:06
Lion: And in that way you also hope to inspire people with ADOA.

00:23:12
Lion: Certainly!

00:23:13
Lion: So people who have that and in that way also find their way in experimenting and discovering something that they…

00:23:19
Lowie: Yes, in the area of ​​sports, or other hobbies that also seem challenging at first. But eventually when it works, that feeling is very nice, yes.

00:23:31
Lion: Yes. What does that do to you, that feeling? Can you name it more?

00:23:37
Lowie: I think there is a point – for example before winning the National Championship and a point after winning the National Championship, but I feel the same way about the Rotterdam marathon. There is a point before you are welcomed by the public like that over the Coolsingel, and I think that everyone who has ever run the marathon – and certainly that first time, and certainly in Rotterdam – recognizes that, when you are carried like that over the Coolsingel, yes, that is a feeling, I have never experienced that before. And the moment you cross that line, I could get emotional about that, certainly because I had done it with buddies at the time, and then you hug each other and then you think: “Yes, we did it after all”. That was the case with the National Championship too, it is just something that is a kind of – you have a kind of memory library in your head, don't you? – as if you store a kind of memories. And when you sometimes have a moment when you're sitting at home alone drinking tea, I think: "Oh yes, that National Championship, it was really cool that we won it back then."

00:24:38
Lion: Yes, yes, beautiful! Thank you.

00:24:44
Danny: Yes, you're welcome.

00:24:45
Lowie: Yes, go ahead.

00:24:47
Lion: Thanks for listening to this podcast.

00:24:50
Maud: Should you have any further questions or wish to discuss this further? Please contact us via our website adoa.eu.